Strange "Micro" Results

[GardenGreg]

Hello everyone! New here to SSC and I hope someone out there can tell me what happened in my raised bed last summer. I'm in Georgia, USA (Zone 8 if that helps). In my 1st year of retirement I decided to do a bit of gardening. I read/watched about 1,000 things on raised bed gardening and since I had access to a lot of concrete blocks, built a 4' x 16', 3 block high bed. I bought a dump truck of topsoil, used old rotting oak logs for Hugelkultur, and mixed the dirt with peat moss, bags of composted manure and such. The first year everything seemed fine. I grew a mutant sweet potato that tried to take over the whole bed, some squash, black-eye peas, and various other bits and pieces. My first year was all about experimentation with various plants.
Come the winter, I would occasionally bury kitchen scraps in the bed and I covered it all with shredded leaves (Both recommended in various videos).
Come spring I planted the "Three Sisters" of beans, squash and corn. They all seemed to start out well, and began growing. By this point I had built 2 other wooden beds about 3' x 6' filled the exact same way. Here is the issue. In the concrete block bed, nearly all of the plants grew into small, perfect-looking, versions of their larger selves. No disease I could see, no pest issues, nothing. They reminded me of "Bonsai Tree" versions of regular plants. Most bore none or few vegetables. I did a Ph test which came out pretty much neutral.
The two wooden beds did fine (and continue to do so now). Some of the extra seedlings I had left over from the concrete bed went into them and they grew and bore fruit like you would expect.
I treated all 3 beds the same way at the same time as regards watering and such and, as I said before, they were all filled identically. Sun reaches them all equally. In short, they should be mirror images of each other except the wood vs. concrete block difference. And the blocks were never used in building or anything like that, and had sat out in the rain for quite some time away from anything that could have leaked onto them.
I've gone through every possible thing I can think of to no avail. Has anyone else experienced this "Micro" phenomenon? Thanks in advance for any thoughts or suggestions.

 

[daveb]

you didn't mention if you happen to also do an n - p - k tests it you had a large amount of stuff still breaking down decomposing could be the issue some materials as they compost and break down tend to suck nutrients out of the soil to aid decomposition these return back to soils as they break down think of your compost as living animal it feeds on nutrients in soil as it breaks down because of various microbes and bacteria.
Did any of the leafs show any signs of discoloration or deformed shape or curling? i would suggest check for lack of phosphorus the plants tend to be severely stunted and leafs tend to take on a purple hue to tint . lack of other - nitrogen the leaves with be sickly yellow or pale yellow or pale green, potassium the stems will be pale leaf take on a hard yellowing and poor budding of plant. over watering can leach out nutrients also so first off i would suggest get a good n-p-k test kit and test various spots in bed not just surface but deep down where roots grow down into remember not all plants feed the same and if you had yams - sweet potatoes - reg potatoes - beets - tomatoes - peppers are all heavy feeders of phosphorus and will pull large amounts from soil and plants in heavy bloom also pull fair amount out, i always dress my potatoes and some other root crops with a side dress of high phosphate like 0-10-0 or even 0-33-0 on the potatoes

another possibility is root knot nematodes infestation in soil can cause severe stunting of plant looks for disfigured roots hence the name root knot nematodes

 

[GardenGreg]

Dave, thank you for your reply. No, I didn't do an n - p - k test. Just the Ph test. I discovered a Dept of Agriculture extension office nearby that does soil analysis so I may give them a try.

There was no discoloration or deformations at all. If I had taken a picture of one of the plants with no size context, you'd have thought it was a perfectly healthy plant. Discoloration or curling or some other abnormality would have given me something to go on, but there was nothing.

As to your nematode suggestion, would the other two beds not be affected as well? They are right beside the concrete one and lower down, just a 3' walking path between. I didn't examine the roots unfortunately. Is there some other way to check for them?

To clarify, I didn't overload the bed with kitchen scraps, and no meat/bones/fat/processed/etc. About a gallon or less spread out in a trench about 8-10 inches deep. Never the same place twice of course. As I dug during planting, everything seemed to have broken down.

Miraculously, I just checked my garden photos and found a comparison picture I took on the same day with a coke can for scale. The left side are two squash plants growing like crazy in the wood bed. The one on the right is one of the "Dwarf" squash plants in the concrete bed. All 3 plants are the same seeds, germinated at the same time, planted at the same time, etc. As you can see, the dwarf one looks perfectly healthy and is even flowering. I think I eventually got about 7 squash from those 2 on the left. None from the right. FYI, I had a 1" layer of wood chips for mulch on both beds which is why the dirt looks odd.

 

[DThille]

If I understand correctly, this was year 1 for the wooden beds and year 2 for the cinder block bed. Is that right? If so, the next stage of the experiment would also include how the wooden beds do this year. Even from the same supplier, I’m sure the soil could vary somewhat year to year. Hopefully the ag office will be able to give you some clues.

I’ve got a good friend in the Athens area. In 2016, my son’s grad gift was a trip to Atlanta and we heard John Maxwell teach in a smallish group. We also took in the aquarium, which was impressive.

Good luck.

 

[daveb]

Dave, thank you for your reply. No, I didn't do an n - p - k test. Just the Ph test. I discovered a Dept of Agriculture extension office nearby that does soil analysis so I may give them a try.

There was no discoloration or deformations at all. If I had taken a picture of one of the plants with no size context, you'd have thought it was a perfectly healthy plant. Discoloration or curling or some other abnormality would have given me something to go on, but there was nothing.

As to your nematode suggestion, would the other two beds not be affected as well? They are right beside the concrete one and lower down, just a 3' walking path between. I didn't examine the roots unfortunately. Is there some other way to check for them?

To clarify, I didn't overload the bed with kitchen scraps, and no meat/bones/fat/processed/etc. About a gallon or less spread out in a trench about 8-10 inches deep. Never the same place twice of course. As I dug during planting, everything seemed to have broken down.

Miraculously, I just checked my garden photos and found a comparison picture I took on the same day with a coke can for scale. The left side are two squash plants growing like crazy in the wood bed. The one on the right is one of the "Dwarf" squash plants in the concrete bed. All 3 plants are the same seeds, germinated at the same time, planted at the same time, etc. As you can see, the dwarf one looks perfectly healthy and is even flowering. I think I eventually got about 7 squash from those 2 on the left. None from the right. FYI, I had a 1" layer of wood chips for mulch on both beds which is why the dirt looks odd.

View attachment 6452

I see some mottling in one plant but that looks to be the leaf for that the variety of squash.

one other i forgot for stunted growth, lack of calcium in the soil also which also can cause stunting of plant but its not as common as lack of other nutrients But you would notice visual mottling to the leaf and in some cases leaf tips will curl back and just look weak, In a severe lack of calcium stunts plants by reducing root growth so the plant basically cant absorb water and it also cause the plants to drop blossoms or cause blossom end rot in many vegetables ( this is a common issue for people that grow exclusively in coco core or coconut husk fiber it absorbs large amouns of calcium amd some nutrient ). You can ask if they also have test for calcium in soil and Georgia tends to have a lot of clay which carries over a decent amount of calcium unless you get into red clay. my suggestions is add some calcium nitrate to you rotation of fertilizer , be aware you do not need large amount it can affect your PH>

I've never been much for wood chip as a vegetable garden mulch it absorbs and locks up nutrients to long before it fully decomposes. in the few areas i do grow in beds i used the bag attachment on my mower to collect grass clippings to spread a 2 to 3 inch layer in open areas i found i rarely if ever got stray weed in garden and breaks down relatively fast into soil. another options is a green crop to act as a ground cover . You can plant thick with various lettuces and green , herbs to keep weeds down , something in affect the three sister do the corn gives the runner beans a pole to climb while the beans help fix nitrogen back into the soil, while the squash grow large enough to shade the soil and keep weeds down plus the prickers on the leafs of the varieties grown by tribes keep many animals out

Lamotte makes a nice n-p-k ph test kit buts its also extreme on cost side, the one i have now for soil test kit now n-p-k- ph is from lusterleaf #1663 and about $35 , but the leaf luster rapid test will work as well for $15 both are usually available from local garden shop or on amazom

Lamotte also makes a calcium test kit thats not badly priced

 

[GardenGreg]

DThille - I didn't clarify that very well. One of the wooden beds was built the same season as the concrete one. It is doing quite well with Egyptian walking onions, lettuce, mustard greens and various other goodies. And yes, the aquarium is awesome, and I lived in Athens for 2 years graduating from UGA (Go Dawgs!).

Daveb - I will check to see if they test for calcium and other substances. Part of the kitchen scraps were crushed egg shells which I thought added calcium. And yes, I never added more wood chips after the first year. Now I use finely shredded leaves mostly since they break down into nutrients themselves as they decompose. I'm using mostly topsoil in my beds mixed with homemade compost, peat moss, and leftover potting soil, so the red clay shouldn't be a large issue. Planting the lettuce as a "Cover" crop is a very interesting idea. No weeds plus more food!

 

[daveb]

DThille - I didn't clarify that very well. One of the wooden beds was built the same season as the concrete one. It is doing quite well with Egyptian walking onions, lettuce, mustard greens and various other goodies. And yes, the aquarium is awesome, and I lived in Athens for 2 years graduating from UGA (Go Dawgs!).

Daveb - I will check to see if they test for calcium and other substances. Part of the kitchen scraps were crushed egg shells which I thought added calcium. And yes, I never added more wood chips after the first year. Now I use finely shredded leaves mostly since they break down into nutrients themselves as they decompose. I'm using mostly topsoil in my beds mixed with homemade compost, peat moss, and leftover potting soil, so the red clay shouldn't be a large issue. Planting the lettuce as a "Cover" crop is a very interesting idea. No weeds plus more food!

yes crushed egg shell will break down and leach calcium into the soil the finer the better for faster break down, i crush them course and sprinkle around bases of tender plants to deter slug

for the few plots i do have in soil i order bulk seeds of lettuce and spinach advantage is the cover crop also cuts down on sun to soil helping to keep soil cooler and a barrier that also breaks up wind a bit, slip hand down under a good cover crop and you will notice a marked different in air and soil temperature. As i pull them starting as micro greens and right up to mature plants as i clear i plant more. I will toss in Nasturtium as well the flowers add color to a salad and an extra flavor. throw in peppermint plants along the edges it deters numerous insect spiders, aphids, cabbage looper, flea beetles, squash bugs, whiteflies, ants, mosquitoes, draw back it can also deter bees so don't use it heavy around areas of blooming plants like tomatoes peppers squash a few plants are fine, and it also deters mice. making an essential oil and putting it on cotton balls and placing where mice nest or run will drive them away , also can be used in tiny amounts in salads or used as a tea. covers crops and companion planting is not new ancestors did it for centuries in the basics of the three sisters and numerous other ways. parks , burpee , ohio heirloom seeds , i bought numerous bulk packs deals from suppliers on amazon ranging from single packs of 2000 up to multiple types with 22,000 seeds to a bunch

For those who haven't eaten them the Nasturtium can be a complex flavor and a bit on the spicy side, so mix with milder lettuces that carry a sweet subtle tone throw on the raspberry dressing i posted in recipes and the total character of flavors can be overwhelming for some with a full range and if you are adventurous toss in some chopped walnuts - pecans or shaved almonds.