Humane Poultry Killer (from Morrigan)

Mandy Onderwater

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I'm glad there weren't any hard feelings - I didn't mean to hurt yours after all. Thank you for the compliments :D

Yes, this forum is aimed to challenge one another, to teach and learn. It's a safe place where opinions can clash, yet still be respected.
 

ri$hbastard

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Thanks, again, Mandy.
Yes, indeed...it's nice to talk as to other adults.

Seems there are plenty of "over-grown children" running around in the world, almost waiting to be insulted, nursing their ever burgeoning feeling(s) of entitlement, lol.
IMHO.
 

ri$hbastard

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I attach an EXPLICIT & DETAILED video of poultry neck dislocation.

For those that can stomach it, it is very detailed & helpful, I thought.
In fact, my hats off to this guy - I thought the video was beautifully done, as far as it could possibly be.

As I am a newbie, please forgive me if I repeat what has gone before, or inadvertently stuff up.
 

Scottish_Maiden

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There's a video of somebody using it on YouTube and it doesn't look all that "humane." He had to guillotine the chicken twice ... it was obvious the first time that the chicken was still alive and conscious. The second time, it was lights out. Not sure why ... perhaps he had the gap too wide? But it was gruesome to watch. I've done the hatchet-method, and the cone-method with a knife. The "ineffective guillotine" looked far crueler than either method. Perhaps people who've used this could weigh in on whether this video is representative of how this tool works, or if the guy messed up and had it adjusted wrong.

 

Grandmother Goose

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Re: the "humane poultry killer" video... I haven't used one and can't say if he didn't have it set right, but I can say that he "guillotined" those birds far too low on the neck and there's nothing humane about that. For cervical dislocation it HAS to be BETWEEN the skull and the first vertebrae, without crushing the vertebrae, because that's the only way that's guaranteed to immediately stop the heart from pumping blood to the brain. Any lower on the neck, or with a crushed vertebrae instead of a complete dislocation, and the animal could still be alive and slowly suffocating. This could legally be classed as an inhumane slaughter method in Australia because there was no pre-stunning, and the blood flow to the brain wasn't instantly stopped ensuring an immediate fall into unconsciousness and rapid death. Maybe if used in exactly the right spot to create the correct type of dislocation it might work, but the chances of getting a struggling stressed bird into the right position to make that possible with that sort of a device is slim at best and there's far too much room for error.

I suspect the only reason why anyone thinks it's humane is because they don't understand enough about the physiology of death, and want to believe it because it saves them from the yuck factor of having a lot of blood to clean up.
 
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Grandmother Goose

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Not sure if my attached video, mentioned by me previously, went through, so here is the link...
I've seen that video before. That guy knows what he's doing and I commend his care for the animal and the need for the quickest death. But as he said, it's not so easy to do on a large rooster, and it does require quite a bit of strength. I can't do it because I don't have enough strength in both of my hands to keep a good enough grip on the bird to guarantee I won't slip and hurt the bird, which is why I prefer to use the cone method myself.
 

ri$hbastard

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Thank you Goose & Scottish Maiden.

You both raise excellent points, and I may well have to resign my recently purchased device to the scrap metal heap.

Re the video on Cervical Dislocation I posted:- yes, apparently he even mentions either on that video or another one he did earlier, that C.D. can be hard to do on big birds due to the strength needed, and in these cases he recommends/uses the broomstick method.

I seem to remember seeing plans for a custom special neck breaking board on the Net - I think it was specifically designed for ducks.
Sounds gruesome - but I think the idea was that it did a similar job to the broomstick method, but without requiring as much foot & leg dexterity on the part of the dispatcher.

From memory it was like an old fashioned boot grabber/remover, but with narrower channels.

I shall have another look.

When I watch the broomstick method, I always get nervous that if I was doing it that one of my feet would slide off the broomstick at the crucial moment, and or that I would lose my balance and fall backwards when doing it.
Maybe I worry to much; I've never actually tried any of these methods, so it's all academic for me at this point.
ie. I am taking the whole discussion seriously, but I have no actual real life experience(s) with any of this, unlike many others here.

Maybe the Morrigan device is safe and effective but with many caveats.
I would now be very hesitant to use one, unless I was with someone who had very good/superb mastery of one, and had a good history of humane poultry dispatching with it, to show me if there are any finer points that would make the device a positive game changer.
So far, that does not seem to be the case.

I invite Mark - again - for his comments/feedback on the Morrigan device.
What have been your experiences, Mark?

I am not trying to be divisive here - just gathering further info.
 

ri$hbastard

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{ Please note - my CAPITALS are for emphasis - never "shouting."}

OMG!

I just watched Scottish Maidens video - somewhat belatedly to my above post, admittedly.

I would be forced to say that that guy DOES NOT KNOW WHAT HE IS DOING!
I sincerely hope he is not the inventor of the product.

This looks like gross incompetence to me.

Sheesh, VERY gruesome!

That was like multiple goes for what, about 4 birds EACH!
I may watch it again when I get my breath back.

Right now I feel a tad sick.

And on that first bird he was attempting to dislocate it's neck WHERE THE NECK ATTACHES TO THE BODY.

ie. He should be attempting the dislocation {assuming for the moment that the device can even do that} - to just where the neck attaches to the head.

Oh, boy!

ENTIRELY THE WRONG SPOT.

What the HECK !!!!

As both previous posts pointed out...
 
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Grandmother Goose

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Thank you Goose & Scottish Maiden.

You both raise excellent points, and I may well have to resign my recently purchased device to the scrap metal heap.

Re the video on Cervical Dislocation I posted:- yes, apparently he even mentions either on that video or another one he did earlier, that C.D. can be hard to do on big birds due to the strength needed, and in these cases he recommends/uses the broomstick method.

I seem to remember seeing plans for a custom special neck breaking board on the Net - I think it was specifically designed for ducks.
Sounds gruesome - but I think the idea was that it did a similar job to the broomstick method, but without requiring as much foot & leg dexterity on the part of the dispatcher.

From memory it was like an old fashioned boot grabber/remover, but with narrower channels.

I shall have another look.

When I watch the broomstick method, I always get nervous that if I was doing it that one of my feet would slide off the broomstick at the crucial moment, and or that I would lose my balance and fall backwards when doing it.
Maybe I worry to much; I've never actually tried any of these methods, so it's all academic for me at this point.
ie. I am taking the whole discussion seriously, but I have no actual real life experience(s) with any of this, unlike many others here.

Maybe the Morrigan device is safe and effective but with many caveats.
I would now be very hesitant to use one, unless I was with someone who had very good/superb mastery of one, and had a good history of humane poultry dispatching with it, to show me if there are any finer points that would make the device a positive game changer.
So far, that does not seem to be the case.

I invite Mark - again - for his comments/feedback on the Morrigan device.
What have been your experiences, Mark?

I am not trying to be divisive here - just gathering further info.
Watching any of these processes on video is a good way to get accustomed to what to expect to see, and that's a good place to start for not just learning different methods, but also learning if you can cope with seeing and hearing it, but doing it is still a bit of a different thing. In the video, you're not holding and interacting with the warm living animal about to be slaughtered, you're not feeling the strength and grip required to hold the animal least of all feel how resistant and wiggly it is, and you're not having to feel the crunch of the neck separating or the feel of warm sticky blood on your hands. A video with audio gives us sight and hearing of the process, but once you add in touch and smell, it gets a whole new level of real, which for some people can make it go from "I can do this" to "No way!" I've seen some of the biggest toughest blokes still turn green and promptly vomit at seeing death in real life even after they'd seen far worse videos. So just be aware that being able to handle watching a video might not be enough and it may depend a bit on how sensitive you are to your other senses.

I would recommend if you've never done it yourself, and have never seen it done in person, try to track down someone local that also raises their own poultry for meat, or a poultry slaughterhouse, or a butcher that has been trained in how to do it, and see if you can get them to give you an in-person lesson/experience/demonstration of it. Regardless of where you are, someone not too terribly far from you would know what they're doing and may be willing and able to help.

I don't know where you're located, but in Australia there are mobile butchers that travel around the country dispatching animals for meat, catering to small farms and the like that can't get their animals to a proper slaughterhouse on condition that the meat doesn't leave the premises (ie: it's for their use only, not for sale). I don't know if they can attend a suburban residence for a poultry bird, but they'd probably be the best to call for more information and advice on the topic because not only do they know how, but they also know the why's and the legalities.

Speaking of which, be aware that what is deemed humane and acceptable in one pocket of the world can be deemed inhumane and unacceptable in another, some places require stunning, some places think stunning can cause more potential unnecessary harm if it doesn't go right and thus is more cruel and unnecessary. In some places, home-slaughter is legal, in other's it's not, and even in places where it is legal there may be restrictions as to how, when, where, equipment required, reasons you can do it, methods you can use, what you can and can't do with the meat afterwards, how you're allowed to dispose of the refuse, etc; and some places have no laws about any of it at all. So definitely also check your local laws and regulations before going ahead.
 

ri$hbastard

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Sure, Goosey.

I appreciate your feedback, but do not assume too much - you don't really fully know me.
No offense is taken - none is meant.

I am not completely removed from the whole deal.
I live on an eco-village:- https://www.shepherdsground.com.au/

It's at Butterwick, NSW, in the Newcastle area.
More exactly - close to Maitland.

We have a very compassionate mobile butcher whom we call when there is an animal to be butchered.
I've seen the whole process from seeing cattle being shot to being butchered.

I'm no stranger to either death or dying, whether animals or people.

My surprise was specifically about the Morrigan implement, as Mark seems so compassionate AND efficient & practical, and he originally recommended this tool.

Therefore, despite me reading some critical comments on it, watching the actual demo of it given above was still a bit of a shock.

I find it hard to believe Mark would ever dispatch an animal like that.

Mark Valencia! Where are you?

PLEASE comment - I would love to hear your experiences with this tool.
Do you still use this tool & why?
If you do - any tips on how to improve the outcome?
If not - what tools & methods do you now choose to use?
 

Mandy Onderwater

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Mark has been very busy, so he hasn't been available much of late. Not to worry, he does intend to get back on here as soon as he can again ;)
 

Grandmother Goose

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Sure, Goosey.

I appreciate your feedback, but do not assume too much - you don't really fully know me.
No offense is taken - none is meant.

I am not completely removed from the whole deal.
I live on an eco-village:- https://www.shepherdsground.com.au/

It's at Butterwick, NSW, in the Newcastle area.
More exactly - close to Maitland.

We have a very compassionate mobile butcher whom we call when there is an animal to be butchered.
I've seen the whole process from seeing cattle being shot to being butchered.

I'm no stranger to either death or dying, whether animals or people.

My surprise was specifically about the Morrigan implement, as Mark seems so compassionate AND efficient & practical, and he originally recommended this tool.

Therefore, despite me reading some critical comments on it, watching the actual demo of it given above was still a bit of a shock.

I find it hard to believe Mark would ever dispatch an animal like that.

Mark Valencia! Where are you?

PLEASE comment - I would love to hear your experiences with this tool.
Do you still use this tool & why?
If you do - any tips on how to improve the outcome?
If not - what tools & methods do you now choose to use?
I do my best to never assume anything about anyone, and in saying that, I couldn't assume anyone that reads this, now or in the far future knew more than I was aware of. I think it's worse to assume someone knows something than to assume they don't. If it turns out they do know more, good for them for knowing it, I'm glad they do, worst case scenario I wasted my time explaining something. If I approach it from the other perspective and assume they already know more and they don't, it can quickly become rather awkward for them, can make them feel embarrassed or even ashamed for not knowing. There's also the fact that some people do need to be told things from the most basic level, eg: "turn off the power" before doing electrical work... because it might not occur to them to do that and then they get electrocuted... even though many people would just assume that turning off the power was the first step to take and wonder why anyone would need to say that... so yeah, always better to assume nothing, including assuming some people that read this thread will know nothing. After all, the audience of the comments in this thread isn't just yourself and I, it's also everyone that will come here in the future, and someone else may find that extra information useful. Maybe I should have worded it better and not as if talking directly to you for the whole thing, that was just mental laziness on my part. For that, I apologize if it made you feel uncomfortable in reading it, and I shall endeavour to be more generalised in future with such things.
 

ri$hbastard

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Goosey:- another great reply, lol.

No all is good!
No need to apologize.

Like I said before:- no offense meant - none taken.

Your overall approach, Goosey, appears very mature, coherent & considered.
Which is what attracted me to this site years ago - though I never really interacted with it particularly, at the time.

You are a forum veteran, I barely post on anything, lol.

I think you made your points, well.

I appreciate your conciliatory comments, but hope we can all keep the vigour & edge thing going, too.

Keeps one awake, aware, and brings a certain sort of enlivening vigor to the overall dialogue. :thumbsup:

Cheers.
 
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