Tip Glyphosate: Detox and Soil Remediation

[JP 1983]

Gavin Mounsey (a Canadian permaculturalist) has recently published a rather thorough article on the inherent dangers of this carcinogenic herbicide. He details the history, patents, chemistry and vivacidal properties of this strong metal chelator, as well as strategies for personal glyphosate detox (turns out I'm already eating most of the remedies he cites: radish, fermented foods and seaweed, among others) and soil remediation strategies (namely, tested bacteria and fungi which break down glyphosate).

Anyway, here you go:

[LINK]

 

[Mandy Onderwater]

Sadly glyphosates are still available in many places, including here in Australia. And I know many farmers (be it cattle, gardens and otherwise) still use it frequently.

I noticed that when it was used in our garden, those patches would not grow ANYTHING for the longest times. Many months would pass, and it would still be barren.

 

[Grandmother Goose]

Hmm... blog style article, not a peer reviewed scientific article. Okay. It was interesting. It referenced and linked back to some valid sources about glyphosate. Classic buzzword that one though, which for the record is yes, potentially harmful if misused (then again so are most common household cleaners, paints, glues...). Scary is the fact that it's one of the least harmful of all the herbicides out there. Makes one wonder how bad the others that we don't hear about so much really are? That's beside the point though. The information about soil remediation, the use of bacteria to break down glyphosate in soil, that is completely valid (though I do want to rhetorically ask: Why is there glyphosate in soil? Answer: Someone wasn't using it properly).

I have one huge issue with one part of this article however. The concept of detoxing.
The only genuinely proven non-pseudoscience options for the removal of toxins in our body are:
1. All done for us naturally by our liver, lungs, kidneys, and immune system. The only way to help those systems function is to not consume toxic levels of anything in the first place.
2. Some extreme medical interventions, such as swallowing a heap of activated charcoal and stomach pumping, blood and bone marrow transfusions, and some medications such as antivenoms, all of which are in the "don't try this at home kids" level of medical care.
There is literally no food or drink or herbal cocktail or supplement that you can consume or activity you can do that will detox anything in your body; except for activated charcoal absorbing some types of toxins that have recently entered your digestive system, but again that's a, "don't try this at home kids" thing.
Anyone that tries to claim that there is some sort of detoxing food, drink, supplement, or activity we can safely do at home, is either ignorant and gullible and has believed someone else's BS, or they're trying to sell something - which can be anything from a direct sales product to the less invasive and more subtle ad revenue of a website.

 

[Grandmother Goose]

Sadly glyphosates are still available in many places, including here in Australia. And I know many farmers (be it cattle, gardens and otherwise) still use it frequently.

I noticed that when it was used in our garden, those patches would not grow ANYTHING for the longest times. Many months would pass, and it would still be barren.

That can happen for a few reasons, but when glyphosate is the real culprit, it's because it got into the soil which it shouldn't be allowed to do. It should only be spot sprayed onto the leaves of the plants to be eliminated preferably in the morning, those plants should be left alone and not rained on nor watered for at least 2 hours preferably the rest of the day, and eventually when they're dead, not dug into the soil but removed and disposed of unless they're left to completely decay away naturally which takes up to 6 months, by which time the glyphosate should already be fully decayed as well. I think companies really need to be held accountable for that, they need much clearer instructions, not just on what to do but what not to do... then again, I could say the same for a lot of household products. My dad nearly blew up our shed with fertilizer once because he didn't know that some nitrogen rich fertilizers can be explosive under the right conditions, because that wasn't mentioned in the instructions - of course it wasn't, don't want people finding that out and using it for nefarious reasons! So we'll just not tell anyone. My mother almost gassed herself by mixing common household cleaning products, because there was no mention on the instructions that a highly toxic gas would be produced if that was done, again, nefarious uses, we have to keep people safe after all. I have concluded that living is not a particularly safe thing to do.

 

[JP 1983]

Hmm... blog style article, not a peer reviewed scientific article. Okay. It was interesting. It referenced and linked back to some valid sources about glyphosate. Classic buzzword that one though, which for the record is yes, potentially harmful if misused (then again so are most common household cleaners, paints, glues...). Scary is the fact that it's one of the least harmful of all the herbicides out there. Makes one wonder how bad the others that we don't hear about so much really are? That's beside the point though. The information about soil remediation, the use of bacteria to break down glyphosate in soil, that is completely valid (though I do want to rhetorically ask: Why is there glyphosate in soil? Answer: Someone wasn't using it properly).

I have one huge issue with one part of this article however. The concept of detoxing.
The only genuinely proven non-pseudoscience options for the removal of toxins in our body are:
1. All done for us naturally by our liver, lungs, kidneys, and immune system. The only way to help those systems function is to not consume toxic levels of anything in the first place.
2. Some extreme medical interventions, such as swallowing a heap of activated charcoal and stomach pumping, blood and bone marrow transfusions, and some medications such as antivenoms, all of which are in the "don't try this at home kids" level of medical care.
There is literally no food or drink or herbal cocktail or supplement that you can consume or activity you can do that will detox anything in your body; except for activated charcoal absorbing some types of toxins that have recently entered your digestive system, but again that's a, "don't try this at home kids" thing.
Anyone that tries to claim that there is some sort of detoxing food, drink, supplement, or activity we can safely do at home, is either ignorant and gullible and has believed someone else's BS, or they're trying to sell something - which can be anything from a direct sales product to the less invasive and more subtle ad revenue of a website.

Please learn what "chelators" are and do. They are detoxifiers par excellence.
I take native sarsaparilla from time to time, a natural chelator of heavy metals (I find EDTA chelation to be dangerous, but it helps others suffering lead, mercury, thallium and other metal poisonings).
Other substances, including herbal medicines, have chemical binding preferences which can allow the specific targeting of certain biological or chemical substances such as specific proteins, red blood cells, ACE2 receptors, Voltage-gated calcium channels, SSRIs, ion pump inhibitors, cancerous mitochondria and so on, allowing them to be more ably expelled from the body.
I myself noticed that taking sarsparilla leaf tea during a cold or flu event changes the consistency of the mucus being expelled and improves recovery time considerably.

 

[Grandmother Goose]

Please learn what "chelators" are and do. They are detoxifiers par excellence.
I take native sarsaparilla from time to time, a natural chelator of heavy metals (I find EDTA chelation to be dangerous, but it helps others suffering lead, mercury, thallium and other metal poisonings).
Other substances, including herbal medicines, have chemical binding preferences which can allow the specific targeting of certain biological or chemical substances such as specific proteins, red blood cells, ACE2 receptors, Voltage-gated calcium channels, SSRIs, ion pump inhibitors, cancerous mitochondria and so on, allowing them to be more ably expelled from the body.
I myself noticed that taking sarsparilla leaf tea during a cold or flu event changes the consistency of the mucus being expelled and improves recovery time considerably.

I know what chelation is. I also know that there are two versions of it:
1. The pseudoscience version, which claims that eating or drinking whatever food, beverage, or supplement is trendy this year will detox heavy metals and other toxins from one's body, which simply flat out doesn't work.
2. The real medical version, which falls into the "do not try this at home" category because doing it wrong, or misuse of it, can be potentially deadly, as it doesn't discriminate in what metals it binds to and eliminates, thus it will also remove metals that we need to live such as iron, zinc, and calcium, which can lead to potential serious medical problems of other kinds, with kidney failure being a common risk, which is why it needs to be done under medical supervision.

Some things, like increasing one's iron intake, can reduce further absorption of heavy metals, but there is no food or drink that will get rid of what is already in your system. If it was that simple, all the billions of dollars around the world that has been poured into science research and medical treatments over the past 200 years would have instead been invested in producing and promoting that food or beverage and a lot more money would be made by doing that because real medicine is extremely expensive and farming is much cheaper, but that's not what is happening; and not because it's some sort of secret, but because it hasn't been proven to work, or has been proven not to work.

I'm sorry if I sound harsh about this. It's nothing personal. I'm too autistic to be particularly diplomatic in the first place, and pandering to false ideals is not only something I can't do very well, but it is something I find utterly disgusting when it comes to health information, as I've seen the harm it can do to people that are genuinely suffering. Most of the pseudoscience about chelation came from scammers trying to sell crap to the ignorant parents of autistic children, convincing them that they can cure their child [false], claiming the cause of their child's autism was mercury in their vaccines [false] and they had the miracle cure to detox the mercury out [false], and they would sell them whatever detox they were peddling so they could get rich off someone else's struggles and ignorance. Not only are all those claims 100% wrong, the claims, the scams, and the population cleansing that is behind it all is utterly offensive to autistic people, and insulting to their parents (who are also autistic more often than not, after all, it is genetic). So even if I could be softer and more flexible on this topic, I would still choose not to be.

 

[Mandy Onderwater]

I quite enjoy this "difference in opinion" as it helps me see multiple sides to the same coin. Neither party appears inherently wrong, yet seem to vary vastly.

I think there is a lot of information on the internet, and a lot can be misinterpreted, mispresented or even plain wrong. Even so-called scientists make mistakes, yet try to bury the lie so deep you don't know right from wrong.

I have accidentally had a reasonable spill here on the property with my glyphosate mixture, and the area that got doses refused to grow grass for many months. I didn't time it, but at least 6 months. So I agree with Grandmother Goose that it shouldn't reach the soil. When I spray it appropriately, the grass below appears unharmed, whereas the intended weed I sprayed does die. Of course, you will have some drippage, so some will always make it's way into the soil.
And I think that during tests, people might not consider the fact that you can overspray, and that it will always have some reach the soil levels.

Sadly, I am not too knowledgeable in this topic, so I can only act upon my experiences. We use a fair bit of glyphosate-based killers on the property here as it's the only thing that has proven itself effective on many of the persistant weeds here. And not for a lack of trying other options that claim they hit those weeds at certain dosages.

 

[Grandmother Goose]

Even so-called scientists make mistakes, yet try to bury the lie so deep you don't know right from wrong.

That line there, that is a massive part of the problem. You see, scientists are human and they do make mistakes, but you know who figures out it was a mistake and corrects it? Scientists.

Science is forced to be correct, because if anyone discovers that it is wrong, science is required to prove itself, it requires retesting, and any time new information comes about that does prove it to be wrong, it has to correct itself, and in doing so it becomes once again correct. The notion that science can't be trusted because scientists make mistakes shows a lack of understanding of the scientific process. Science requires harsh and strict peer review; it begs to be proven wrong. As soon as one scientist makes a claim, they have to be able to prove their claim, and then every other scientist of the same specialty is out to prove them wrong... and when done correctly, it will prove whatever the truth happens to be, whether they like it or not. The peer reviews then get peer reviewed, and so on and on until there is a scientific consensus. A scientific consensus isn't a group of scientists sitting around at a meeting deciding to agree with each other. It's the world-wide body of evidence that proves a fact. Thus, if there are 1000 studies that prove that vaccines don't cause autism and two that don't, the two that don't are the ones that go against the scientific consensus. Those two studies are discarded because and are not correct, and we know they're not correct because a mistake was made in those studies that gave a result that could only be proven when the mistake was repeated.

When scientific research is buried, it's not the scientists that bury it. It's the corporations and governments that forced scientists to sign a non-disclosure agreement before they started working on the project that bury it. The good news is, nothing stays secret forever, someone leaks it eventually and scientists are usually the first whistleblowers. The problems really begin when no one listens to them because they don't trust them, because they don't trust science. It was only very recently in my town that the whistle was blown on the NSW government for sitting on a recent report about environmental lead levels in the town and refusing to release the information due to pressure from the mining companies. Yes, cover ups happen, but it's not science that's doing the coverups. It's science that is screaming into a void that no one is listening to, because we humans don't like being told we're wrong about anything. We don't like it when anything comes along and challenges our cognitive biases.

Another massive problem is bad reporting by the media. This is often used by pseudoscience promoters to "debunk" science and encourage the belief that science can't be trusted because it gets things wrong. A scientific research study suggests that there might be a link between this and that, but further research is required. In other words, they found a correlation and want someone to fund further research on it to find out what is really going on. The media gets hold of it and reports it as this might cause that, which turns the correlation into a causation which is not what the science said. Later on, the science confirms that despite the correlation, once the further study was complete and all factors were taken into account, this didn't cause that at all, it was just a coincidence that this and that tend to commonly happen around the same time. The media then reports it as the science was wrong, this doesn't cause that after all. But by then, everyone has jumped on a social bandwagon of believing this causes that and reacting accordingly. Baby birds are born in Spring, and flowers bloom in Spring, but baby birds being born don't make the flowers bloom.

The last problem is terminology. Science uses many of the same words that general English does, but with different meanings, and a lot of people don't understand the difference.
Theory - in general English it means an idea. In science it means something that has indeed been proven true. An idea that is yet to be proven is a hypothesis.
Consensus - in general English it means a group of people agreeing upon something. A scientific consensus is the massive body of actual evidence that doesn't give a about anyone's opinion.
Opinion - Anyone can have an opinion about whether or not chocolate or vanilla is the best flavour of ice cream and they can't be wrong about that, because it's a personal opinion. It's an expression of personal preference. A scientific opinion is what science has so far proven to be true. It's not merely the personal opinion of a scientist.
Regardless of language use, the idea that vaccines cause autism is not an opinion. It's incorrect information.

So, when someone says they're allowed to have a difference in opinion about something like that, sure, okay, they're allowed to be wrong.

 

[Grandmother Goose]

We use a fair bit of glyphosate-based killers on the property here as it's the only thing that has proven itself effective on many of the persistant weeds here. And not for a lack of trying other options that claim they hit those weeds at certain dosages.

Yeah, spilling it on soil won't do good. It'll break down naturally after about 6 months or so in almost any condition, but sunlight helps it break down a lot faster. Unfortunately, there's not much sunlight getting past the surface of soil. I'd much rather not use any kind of weed killer, as there are alternative ways to get rid of any plant, though we don't all have the time, patience, and energy to deal with them all via other methods, so glyphosate is still the best and safest of all herbicides that actually work and don't cause more damage to the soil. If mixing detergent, vinegar and salt actually worked and didn't seriously damage the soil microbes, it would be bottled and sold in every store. That's how you can tell if something works or not. If a genuine company in the EU or Australia can produce and sell it without being taken for a long legal ride by the ACCC or the EU equivalent, it probably works as claimed on the label. If no one is selling it that way, it probably doesn't work.

 

[Mandy Onderwater]

It took a minimum of 6 months for ANYTHING to start growing. But to this day (probably 1.5yrs) it looks a bit patchy. It's slowly starting to come back to "normal". Though, I won't be able to give an accurate reading anymore as we've had all the soil flattened (deeeeeep crevices), and everything got shuffled up a bit.

And due to drought, nothing is growing well now