Death from drinking unpasteurised milk

[Tim C]

If they could stop you they would. I foresee the day when Big Brother would stop people having their own livestock altogether outside corporate farms. In the name of "protecting" us.

 

[Ash]

I wonder whether they would bother enforcing such a law if it ever did get in. Livestock patrol vehicles out in the bush? They sure do have a lot more to worry about in society than worrying about what self-sufficient people are doing on their own land...

 

[Mark]

Making it illegal for a private raw food organisation to sell raw milk in this case or as the video explains is going too far!

The problem is the world of litigation and as Ash said governments are so scared of being found culpable for a person contracting an illness from drinking milk that they make blanket laws which encroach on basic human liberties.

Treating all people like idiots just to save a few idiots amongst us is group punishment.

I agree there should be laws on clear labelling for selling milk so people know what they are buying or even make the sale of such products exclusive licence to certain raw food organisations but to simply ban it is heavy handed.

Yes what next - farm police to catch people drinking their own milk?

 

[Director]

Just the tip of the iceberg chaps.

https://naturalsociety.com/seed-sharing-is-illegal-in-nearly-30-of-us-states/

Sharing Gardening Seeds Illegal in Numerous US States

Informally sharing seed with a neighbor who gardens down the street is illegal in multiple states in the US. The penalty for violating this ridiculous law is a fine of up to $7,500 a day. Like so many other senseless laws, this rule needs to be put to rest.

You can’t even give away seeds to someone in your own neighborhood under certain laws. For example, in some states you need to buy an annual permit and submit each lot of seeds for germination testing; if you don’t, you are defying the law.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2012640/Woman-faces-jail-growing-vegetables-yard.html

A woman who put a vegetable garden in her front yard has been charged with a misdemeanor and could even be facing jail.

Julie Bass, of Oak Park, Michigan, created the garden after her front yard was torn up to replace a sewer line.

But a neighbour complained and called the city, who deemed it unsuitable.

Every front yard in the area is grass.

https://naturalsociety.com/couple-wins-orwellian-state-tries-fine-growing-vegetables/

Sustainable living gets harder all the time when states insist on fining, harassing, and destroying home and land owner’s property. You would think growing some carrots and broccoli in a finely manicured garden would be a boon to any neighborhood, but a Florida couple has had to challenge the state when they were told they would be fined $500 simply for having a vegetable garden on property they owned for over 20 years.

Florida officials were attempting to ‘apply an HOA kind of mentality’ to the couple’s garden, claiming it was an eyesore, even though it was cared for beautifully. The real issue was that this couple was brazen enough to try to grow their own food – divorced from the seed monopolies and corporate stranglehold of a military-state in the making. You can watch them being interviewed above.

And then there's Codex Alimentarius which Australia (and other 'governments') signed decades ago.




https://naturalsociety.com/officials-declare-eating-healthy-mental-disorder/

This one is a real giggle "Orthorexia nervosa"

“Orthorexia nervosa is a label designated to those who are concerned about eating healthy. Characterized by disordered eating fueled by a desire for “clean” or “healthy” foods, those diagnosed with the condition are overly pre-occupied with the nutritional makeup of what they eat”.

In short, if you turn your back on low quality, corporate food containing known cancer causing toxic additives and a rich history of dishonesty rooted in a continuous “profits over people” modus operandi, then you may suffer from a mental illness.

Here's one that describes most of us on this site:

https://insteading.com/2014/06/11/families-getting-fined-growing-gardens/

More and more people are turning to the “grow food, not lawns” movement for a variety of reasons. Some of us are urban farming revolutionaries, some of us are preppers, and some of us are just hobbyists who just want to show their kids what fresh tomatoes look like. As the movement grows, however, some of “the powers that be” are moving to stomp it right down, issuing heavy fines on homeowners who choose to grow vegetables in place of flat green turf.

Back in March, we covered one Florida couple who was fined precisely for growing a food garden – despite the garden being there for decades – along with another Florida woman who was being evicted for her use of off-grid energy.

With that in mind, the guys at Collective Evolution have put together a list of some of these “not as isolated as you may think” incidents …

• Orlando, Florida, Regulations specify that planted shrubs “shall be a minimum of 24 inches in height” and “spaced not more than 36 inches apart.” The code lists approximately 295 approved and prohibited species of plants, trees and shrubs.
  
  
• In Oak Park, Michigan, officials have charged a woman with growing a “vegetable garden in front yard space.” If convicted, she could spend up to 93 days in jail.
  
  
• For 17 years, a couple used their front yard to grow food for their own personal consumption. But in May 2013, Miami Shores Village, Florida amended its ordinance to make clear that front yard vegetable gardens were prohibited.
  
  
• Earlier this year, city inspectors bulldozed more than 100 types of plants, including garlic chives, strawberry and apple mint, being grown by Denise Morrison in Tulsa, Oklahoma. The inspectors said her plants were too tall, but city code allows for plants over 12 inches if they’re meant for human consumption, which hers were. The woman is now suing the city for violating her civil rights.
  
  
• A man was fined $5,200 for growing vegetables in his Clarkston, Georgia backyard, which he not only consumed but also sold at farmers markets and shared with friends.

I realise they are all examples from Amerika but we are not far behind, the time for blind unquestioning obedience to authority is well and truly over, the only recourse to any semblance of freedom and self-determination lies in peaceful disobedience and teaching your kids to do the same. Share with your neighbours, swap your seeds with them, do not rat them out to the government for non-violent 'crimes', work out your differences amicably. No person, corporation or authority deserves respect that hasn't been earned, and usually those who do earn your respect do not demand your obedience through threats of violence as government does. Some food for thought:

 

[Ash]

Orthorexia nervosa

I haven't heard this term, although I know a number of people who *genuinely* fit the bill.
I'm not talking health conscious people who are keen on either growing their own food or going organic. I'm talking about those who are fixated on specific health foods (*none* of them being actual fresh food, i.e. demanding only certain brands of organic food products in the supermarket) that they claim they or their children can only tolerate. All other foods cause them drama. No-one can refute how they feel or react to certain foods, but restricting a diet (especially that of a child) to a handful of supermarket products without a diagnosis of any food intolerance is stifling in many ways to their mental and physical wellbeing. This is the group I worry about.

The people who are self-sufficient with their livestock and agricultural needs and are not reliant on corporate foodstuffs or supermarkets are smart, not orthorexic! And I would suggest that those reliant on shops for their food supplies are secretly envious of the subsistence farmers. To the extent of sabotage over their efforts to remain that way? I'd hope not. I am hopeful Australia is far enough removed from the Western drift of the US and EU that we can remain buffered from all this nonsense for a little while longer...

 

[Director]

I'm talking about those who are fixated on specific health foods (*none* of them being actual fresh food, i.e. demanding only certain brands of organic food products in the supermarket) that they claim they or their children can only tolerate.

Yeah that sounds like a real problem. We all have our foibles though. I'll try to get organic food where possible for e.g, it 'may' not be any more nutritious but it should have WAY less pesticide residues. It's rare that we drink soft-drink and haven't touched fast food (McDonlads, KFC etc for years) we used to let junior have some occasionally to take the mystique out of it but once that was accomplished and he has learned the dangers he simply doesn't crave nor ask us for it.

In the end we can't all be totally self sufficient, but if enough of us around a neighbourhood do grow stuff and share with other who are growing different stuff then we'll all be better off. And let's face it, growing/making your own food these days is as close to printing money as you can get, aside from the mental/physical health aspects.

 

[Mark]

I can't see an Australia that bans its people from sharing seeds between neighbours - if anything, I generally see the grip of power from governments and corporations loosening over the past decade. So yes I'm optimistic about the future of self-sufficiency and people growing/sharing their own produce.

The ban on sending seeds interstate in Oz to WA or Tas is nearly understandable for quarantine reasons although I do think it's overkill and punishes the backyard vegetable grower for no real benefit. There are other better ways of biosecurity at the farm gate to stop the spread of plant diseases.

However, selling vegetable seeds is unlikely to kill someone whereas infected raw milk can so there does need to be health regulations and laws to protect the public. Or, if there is an alternative milk product in demand by certain people that has more chance of carrying a bad bacteria then the seller should take measures by law to inform their customers of the risk.

If we dig deeper, you can in theory place backyard eggs in a similar category as bath milk because homegrown eggs aren't disinfected before processing like commercial eggs are... For example, I used to sometimes supply our school canteen with fresh eggs (for free) but had to re-think because if someone got sick (although very unlikely) I would get raked over the coals.

Some people could and would take the above para as meaning homegrown eggs are dangerous but of course we know that's ridiculous. Where we draw the line is complex.

 

[Director]

I can't see an Australia that bans its people from sharing seeds between neighbours - if anything, I generally see the grip of power from governments and corporations loosening over the past decade.

Must be a different Australia.

Is NZ close enough for you?

https://www.la.org.au/news/251111/nz-food-legislation-removes-right-grow-food

(codex alimentarius again, the same piece of filth that 'our' government signed.)

The best website to read about the problems with the new bill is https://nzfoodsecurity.org (I have no connection with this website).

Here are some snippets:

- It turns a human right (to grow food and share it) into a government-authorised privilege that can be summarily revoked.

- It makes it illegal to distribute “food” without authorisation, and it defines “food” in such a way that it includes nutrients, seeds, natural medicines, essential minerals and drinks (including water).

- By controlling seeds, the bill takes the power to grow food away from the public and puts it in the hands of seed companies. That power may be abused.

- Growing food for distribution must be authorised, even for “cottage industries”, and such authorisation can be denied.

- Under the Food Bill, Police acting as Food Safety Officers can raid premises without a warrant, using all equipment they deem necessary – including guns (Clause 265 – 1).

- Members of the private sector can also be Food Safety Officers, as at Clause 243. So Monsanto employees can raid premises – including marae – backed up by armed police.

- The Bill gives Food Safety Officers immunity from criminal and civil prosecution.

- The Government has created this bill to keep in line with its World Trade Organisation obligations under an international scheme called Codex Alimentarius (“Food Book”). So it has to pass this bill in one form or another.

- The bill would undermine the efforts of many people to become more self-sufficient within their local communities.

- Seed banks and seed-sharing networks could be shut down if they could not obtain authorisation. Loss of seed variety would make it more difficult to grow one’s own food.

- Home-grown food and some or all seed could not be bartered on a scale or frequency necessary to feed people in communities where commercially available food has become unaffordable or unavailable (for example due to economic collapse).

- Restrictions on the trade of food and seed would quickly lead to the permanent loss of heirloom strains, as well as a general lowering of plant diversity in agriculture.

- Organic producers of heirloom foods could lose market share to big-money agribusiness outfits, leading to an increase in the consumption of nutrient-poor and GE foods.

So who knows? We're not that far away from NZ.


Do you know we are the only (or maybe 1 of 2 ) countries left in the whole world that still says that hemp seed is illegal as a food product?
(https://www.foodstandards.gov.au/consumer/generalissues/hemp/Pages/default.aspx )
This is a VERY highly nutritious product with NO psychoactive (dang it) properties at all. You buy it fairly readily at health food stores but it comes with a warning about eating it and recipe for making face cream....just so you know what it's for.

And then there's the whole other debate about cannabis prohibition which deserves a thread of it's own. Yes , you can get drunk which makes people violent, you can smoke tobacco products which gives people lung cancer, you can eat junk food which comes with a whole raft of health problems but you can't use a PLANT that doesn't make you violent or sick and that has a swathe of non-phychoactive health benefits as well and is only a problem when abused (like most things in life). Why, well, because corporate Amerika told us to back in the 30's. For the definitive history of Cannabis prohibition as well as how they duped the AMA and lied about it's cooperation check out 'The Emperor Wears No Clothes' by Jack Herer. Just click on the chapter headings here: https://www.jackherer.com/thebook/ for those who are inetrested.

And try building a new house without a MANDATORY ceiling fan on the OUTDOOR porch in QLD, that one is just mad. I've spoken to a few people about it but no one can give me reason for it other than 'it's da 'law' '. Try painting your fence the 'wrong' colour or building a house that they don't 'approve' of. Try driving your car on the road without paying the yearly protection money called 'rego'. I could go on like this all day.

So I'm going to disagree with you on that point (I hope that you are right and I'm wrong though) all I see is a huge nanny-police state where the government has scammed it's way from being an institution who's job is to make sure the train tracks line up between the states and to stop foreign invaders to a mafia gang that micromanages the minutia of our day to day lives under threat of force while seemingly working AGAINST the good of Australia and for the good of foreign nations and corporations. Just my pov.

 

[Mark]

Believe me - I'm all for the govt staying out of our lives I just don't think it's that bad really but I do hope you're wrong and govt control doesn't get worse!

Just like your video posting @Director (with the dots) there's a whole lot of people who want a small minority (the govt) to run their lives down to the finer details.

 

[Director]

Believe me - I'm all for the govt staying out of our lives I just don't think it's that bad really but I do hope you're wrong and govt control doesn't get worse!

Just like your video posting @Director (with the dots) there's a whole lot of people who want a small minority (the govt) to run their lives down to the finer details.

And that's their choice, However I am older than 3 and can manage my life quite well thanks so Big Nanny can go away and leave me and the other adults to it.

 

[Mark]

The sheep mentality annoys me about society (more than I can say here) and it's a pity people weren't a little bit more inclined to question instead of follow.

 

[Director]

...welcome to my life....

When I started questioning it was through books as the internet hadn't been invented yet. Of course back then the standard refrain was "well, you can't believe everything you read in books". So I denied my inner conspiracy nut for decades but with the information available on the web coupled with the evidence I can see first hand the rabbit hole has proved to be the FAR better explanation for things that whet we were taught or what was implied.

 

[Mark]

The Army was a classic for me - try questioning the system too much and they don't like it very much as all...

 

[Director]

Yeah I would failed Army big time, add my asking 'why' instead of of "Yes sir!" to my genetic contempt of authority and they'd have thrown my arse in the brig on day one.

 

[Ash]

Yes I too tasted the 'no questions asked' strictly hierarchical system of the defence force and was disappointed on how they did their business. There are so many better ways of achieving the goal but they quash members' creativity and potential in the name of following unquestionable rules and regulations. Command filters down through those standardised rules and that's the only way it will be done.

 

[Bea]

Boy dies from drinking unpasteurised milk here in Australia.

There are many who argue the health benefits of drinking raw or "bath" milk.

I used to drink raw milk from my uncles dairy farm straight from the collection vat (all my family did) and I have been guilty of drinking raw milk recently when a friend gave us a bottle but I suppose it is a little foolish... and I won't be doing it again.

I guess the raw food obsession goes a little too far when it comes to milk or products made from unpasteurised milk hey.

I am so very sorry for the family who lost the child. the thing is just how many is that now, in Australia? I would bet people lose more children to cars, proportionately. I am not trying to diminish the suffering. If possible, frankly i would used pasteurized milk here but it is only UH pasteurization, sold in those treated boxes. To make yogurt or any kind of cheese I must buy raw goat and cow's milk. I actually never drink milk and fortunatley the producers are practically around the corner and we get these products 'the day of". for the goat milk my supplier milks her goats everyday and puts everything in a freezer, pulling when she gets an order. the gringo community is quite small and if there were a problem we would hear very fast. I am also reminded of the myriad product recalls of pet food because the strictest standards have not benn set for imports. We also know of people becoming exceedingly ill from eating contaminated lettuce in north america. Mark has his own story of illness from contaminated seafood, as do I. these things just should not happen in North America or Australia. The people at true risk are always children and the elderly. Here in Ecuador our biggest problem is Gringo Gut/Flu. Some of you may understand.

Boy dies from drinking unpasteurised milk here in Australia.

There are many who argue the health benefits of drinking raw or "bath" milk.

I used to drink raw milk from my uncles dairy farm straight from the collection vat (all my family did) and I have been guilty of drinking raw milk recently when a friend gave us a bottle but I suppose it is a little foolish... and I won't be doing it again.

I guess the raw food obsession goes a little too far when it comes to milk or products made from unpasteurised milk hey.

Boy dies from drinking unpasteurised milk here in Australia.

There are many who argue the health benefits of drinking raw or "bath" milk.

I used to drink raw milk from my uncles dairy farm straight from the collection vat (all my family did) and I have been guilty of drinking raw milk recently when a friend gave us a bottle but I suppose it is a little foolish... and I won't be doing it again.

I guess the raw food obsession goes a little too far when it comes to milk or products made from unpasteurised milk hey.

 

[DarrenP]

Bea, without derailing this thread, my wife makes yoghurt with a couple of tablespoons of yoghurt, water, and a couple of tablespoons of powdered milk. All mixed up together, and then put into the store-bought yoghurt maker (one of those Easy-Yo things) overnight.

 

[Silver Egg]

As a European living between dairy farms and eating raw dairy products every day (cheese, yohurt, ice cream, ...) I feel confident enough about the quality of this product to a degree that our 3 children have grown up eating and drinking 1l of raw milk every day. The oldest one is 8 years old and the tallest in his class group. One does not pasteurise breast milk too, right? Many many of the best cheese from our French market are based on raw cow, goat or sheep milk. The only true risk is bovine tuberculose, cause by the bacteria Mycobacterium bovis. Europe is TBC free, at the extreme cost of culling entire farms and their contacts to eradicate the disease. If your country is not cow TBC free, then yes I understand that the government is worried about the consumption of raw milk, but that is trying to reduce the side effects and not taking on the cause of the problem...

 

[ClissAT]

So this thread has taken a few interesting twists & turns over these 2 pages!
A very interesting read.
Its quite strange how some very 'alternative thinking' people can make it so well in the military.
I always have been on the outskirts of free thinking & non conformist, yet I did 25yrs in the army. Admittedly the last few yrs were mostly token attendance as my back injury took its toll. Also as the times changed I found it harder to accept less commitment from the new younger people who were joining as I didn't see the appropriate level of commitment required to achieve the best result at platoon or section level. They were too interested in the fringe benefits & the looming digital age.
Things are probably rather different now with digitization being the norm & the system geared up for that. However, for me as a product of times past, the last several years were quite a tiresome ordeal. I can honestly say I just used the military for income convenience. It wore me down in the end.
However, the fact that a non-conformist person can make a every honourable position for themselves in the military & give it full commitment, shows that there is a time & place for everything & everything has a place & time. Its ok to be a lateral thinker, so long as you understand the hierarchical structure within which you are attempting to exist.
Working with it rather than against it is the essence.

While away in military time I had to consume a standard western over cooked diet as per military requirements. I didn't complain. I just took every opportunity to ingest some fresh uncooked foods when I could even to the point of secreting fresh food such as carrots in my webbing while away on exercise living on rat packs! Holding a position where I was mobile, I was able to drop in to the nearest field kitchen & grab an apple or 2 as well. Known to be rather hippie(ish) most of the cooks took pity on me & gave me fresh veg or fruit when ever they saw me. I always tried to do something for them such as get stuff in town for them if I had to go there for spare parts.

Now to the milk thing. I grew up on fresh unadulterated cows milk products. Most around me did too because processed milk in glass pint bottles delivered by the milkman was for people who had money. In my late 20's & all through my 30's I was vego, drank fresh goats milk & ate yoghurt & cheese from that milk too when at home.

As for kids dying & people getting sick from consuming unprocessed food stuffs, I think it has more to do with the gut micro-flora & the type of general diet those people eat. Several years ago a lot of people got very sick from eating cucumbers grown in Spain. The more we protect ourselves from the outside world, the more the outside world will find a way to invade.

Better to have a full complement of beneficial micro-flora to cope with all comers.
That means eating a full range of foods from various sources, not using bacterial cleaners around the home that removes the good critters from our skin & surroundings, & trying to stay a bit healthy.

We don't know what foods those who got sick were eating other than they apparently consumed fresh milk. The rest of their diet was not considered important in the forensic investigation. The finger was just pointed at the milk.

Narrow minded tunnel vision to my way of thinking.

 

[Mark]

Better to have a full complement of beneficial micro-flora to cope with all comers.
That means eating a full range of foods from various sources, not using bacterial cleaners around the home that removes the good critters from our skin & surroundings, & trying to stay a bit healthy.

It's hard to disagree - you do make a very good point... We have (in the west) become very narrow-minded in our choice of foods when we actually have greater choice than ever to try different things.