collar upgrade

[daveb]

so I decided now that my current supply of food grade spun rockwool is almost used up to switch and test a food safe non toxic neoprene foam plug. this will facilitate reuse after a simple cleaning.
I decide on XCEL Cloning Collars 2 Inch (200 – Pack), Premium Rubber Foam Plant Cloner off amazon at cost of $23.99 for 200 i only question the density if it will allow base and stalk of plant to expand out to grow proper and how this affects reuse the clone collars are 3/4 inch (19mm) thick and1.875 inch (47,6 mm) diameter. I also purchases reflective disk to set on the top $18.49 for 200
these plugs fit perfect in the vial i use with net pots when i start plants, Vials are 40 dram size i bought new from local pharmacy.

collars come in a sheet of 50 they pop out easy from the punched sheet, the center star pattern had a couple spots in the web at points that their punch system didnt completely seperate all cuts at tips i used a 1/4 inch wide 1 inch long exacto blade on first then switched to a blade out of a razor knife to clean theses area up


Pressed into the vial that are a very close fit a snug slip fit. Fitting into the net pot they stop at the inside ridge but can be pushed past very easy and the slight tighter fit closing the hole slightly so a seed will not fall through going to try seeds at various depth down in from top of plug to check sprouting and root developement, will need to check various sprouting options possible a tiny tuff of cotton off a Q-tip or little strip of paper towel to hold seed as the neoprene i know will not wick water, last option would be to start in loose soil remove rinse gentle then open the plugs and insert gentle plusin the open lost of another opens the star center nicely.
My thoughts at present maybe a bit of thinking and a minot amount of extra work but in long run if they wor ooverall less expense of having to buy rockwool plugs or sheet and then cut sheet, easier clean up after open collar and mulch the roots and left over stalk, ( current i have to cut the rockwool plugs off stem and the roots off the rockwool , throw rockwool in garbage compost the rest )
i have two started at moment i cut a small strip of a paper towel one straight into the vial and second in net pot set into vial as soon as set them in the paper towel was wet to the top. water level is just touching the paper wick. The top should evaporate some water away so the towel wont be full in water and cause any rot issues

 

[Mandy Onderwater]

I'm very interested in seeing how this will go. Keep us posted!
I'm also interested to see if neoprene might affect the roots.

 

[daveb]

so planted seeds 11am Saturday and happened to glance over at the two this morning, left hand seeds are little deeper into plug but just starting to come above the top, right hand is about 1/8 inch shallower



so who pissed off mother nature it is evening and snowing again outside.

almost 8 hrs later

 

[Mandy Onderwater]

Ooh! Looking good so far! Nice work

 

[daveb]

Ooh! Looking good so far! Nice work

and this morning 4-17-25....

 

[Mandy Onderwater]

They look really good! Just the sliiightest lean to them, but could just be growth too.

 

[daveb]

They look really good! Just the sliiightest lean to them, but could just be growth too.

think its more of where i had them sitting leaning toward a second light source plus growing so quick

 

[daveb]

had them sitting in a window foorgot the window is open a crack to let fresh air in. set them at back of computer desk to snap pics. just realised when i moved them back to desk to snap pic they were real cold so been stunting their growth the last few daysbeen a week since i put seeds in the collars and was wondering why they are slow to set first set of true leafs now i know why lol

 

[Mandy Onderwater]

Love that you included the root. It looks really healthy, especially if it's stunted as you say. So far, it looks like this would work quite well.

 

[daveb]

ok so i got a little lax with everything going on , had some damage on roof from a storm. didnt put any fertilizer in with the water derp..... which will explain why a bit slower start. here are the two test this morning


the one on left short, #1 the seed was further down from top of the foam plug, plugs are 3/4 inch thick and seeds were placed 1/2 inch down from top. both used a piece of paper towel as a wick. only 1 of 2 seeds sprouted.



right hand foam plug is placed in a a net pot this would drop direct into the hole in the hydroponic system when ready. same thickness for plug major difference here is the seeds placed in the wickwere aprox 1/4 inch deep from top so sprouted faster and both seeds sprouted.




As shown so far i can see a couple minor issues and short coming of the foam plug versus using the rock wool 7


PROS foam plug
#1 assuming at this stage they are reusable
#2 less mess ( I cut rockwool plugs )
#3 exceptable transfer to deep water culture or kratky , aeroponic or drip system where nutrient can be controled for its way of contacting roots
#4 no algae formation on top because plugs do not direct wick water

CONS foam plug
#1 they do not wick water like the fibers in the rock wool do
#2 require wick or different starter method
#3 will require more developed root system before transfer to NFT system would for roots to reach the thin shallow flow if nutrient at bottom of rails


PROS rock wool plug
#1 Cheaper per plug on average 7 cents versus 12 cents for foam
#2 wick water soak once insert seed and
#3 direct drop into NFT or other system right fromthe start

CON
#1 single use
#2 algae forms on top so need a barrier - film of disk to block light on top of plug
#3 Algae bllom in nutrient possible if trasfered from top of rockwool
#4 loose micro fiber from rockwool when handling dry

 

[Mandy Onderwater]

I love the pros and cons list. It's very informative and I'm interested to see what the future will bring.
The foam plug does look visibly misshapen after 1 use, but this would be due to the container it sat/hung in. This likely wouldn't affect it's longevity, provided it's always in the same/similar cup. And statistically, even if you only got 2 uses out of it, you'd still be paying less. I do worry that because of it's shape, it might eventually start growing mould or bacteria between the "creases", that might not be visible at the start. On top of that, if somehow a bacteria set foot in it, you might not even see it at first, but it may affect plant growth or seed viability. In saying that, there's probably a good way to clean and sanitise them between uses.
Do you think the roots would adhere to the foam, or is it smooth enough for that not to happen? Because if the roots do adhere, removing them from the plug may damage them.

 

[daveb]

I love the pros and cons list. It's very informative and I'm interested to see what the future will bring.
The foam plug does look visibly misshapen after 1 use, but this would be due to the container it sat/hung in. This likely wouldn't affect it's longevity, provided it's always in the same/similar cup. And statistically, even if you only got 2 uses out of it, you'd still be paying less. I do worry that because of it's shape, it might eventually start growing mould or bacteria between the "creases", that might not be visible at the start. On top of that, if somehow a bacteria set foot in it, you might not even see it at first, but it may affect plant growth or seed viability. In saying that, there's probably a good way to clean and sanitise them between uses.
Do you think the roots would adhere to the foam, or is it smooth enough for that not to happen? Because if the roots do adhere, removing them from the plug may damage them.

Precisely why i am testing for those answer. I know a number of grow systems commercially use a reuseable foam plug but they prestart seedling in a very light soil medium so they are easily uproot rinsed off and then set into the collar.
I did look at the deforming and if it would spring back, last evening I raised it up higher in the net pot above the ridge that is present on the inside as as you can see it has returned slight but still show the contact area ever so slight of the angle it is still in contact with in the pot. The top image is this morning versus bottom image last evening. Ihave remove completely from the net pot now and just set into the 40 dram vial these are a perfect size fit so will check again over the next few days to see ho the compressed band aroung it and the slight bevel return to a straight form


Root penetration we will see as we progress it will be the telling tale how that works out we all know the power roots have of even penetrating hard soils oover time and finding even the smallest spot to grip and push into.

Permeability is another good question neoprene is a non permeable material its the reason diving suits are made of it it will keep you dry as long as all seams are overlapped. Even cut edges do not wick moisture as you would think a splash of water or humidity may dampen the surface but to saturate to point that moisture goes deep into it takes long prolong contact and in some types total submersion. This is why those same divers suits that do get soaked take so long to dry.

Next point yes if they get a bacterial or mold or fungus it would be a direct result of prolong contact with water and it wicking and neoprene will deteriate under prolonged soaking in a clorox solution over time they will statr to get brittle and deteriate so sanitizing is the next aspect to look at

 

[Mandy Onderwater]

That's a fair analogy! I used to dive with frequency when I was younger, and am licenced. It feels very relate-able.

 

[daveb]

well i broke one of the test plants by accident. So only one going now i just set it i a cool window it gets morning sun so not going to be an agressive grower. first set of tru leafs growing. roots still at very basical center tap root no side shoots off roots the neoprene is pretty much back to original shape just a minor tapper from being in the 40 gram vial no real signs of wicking along the slits. overall not impressed with lack of root development
debating about seperating the two plants or not just to test



btw Mandy, dove since i was a kid with dad and my uncles, later i was certified recreational 30m but that was decades ago, instructor never finished 40 certs before he left and i didnt persue further

 

[Mandy Onderwater]

Oh no! What caused the plant to break?
I think seperating the plants might cause harm. They're in a rather tight space together, compressed in the foam (as seen by the indentations on the foam). If you had a spare plant, it might be worth a try, but since that one already got broken... perhaps not worth it. Though, you could start a new crop still probably, if it did break, assuming you still have seeds. It would lengthen your experiment with the foam rings.

My mum's licenced up to 30m, I'm licensed up to 40m and my father is licensed up to 50m. My dad is the only one still actively diving. I prefer snorkeling myself. Somehow diving always made me very sleepy (on the same air as the other people - and quality checked).

 

[daveb]

Oh no! What caused the plant to break?
I think seperating the plants might cause harm. They're in a rather tight space together, compressed in the foam (as seen by the indentations on the foam). If you had a spare plant, it might be worth a try, but since that one already got broken... perhaps not worth it. Though, you could start a new crop still probably, if it did break, assuming you still have seeds. It would lengthen your experiment with the foam rings.

My mum's licenced up to 30m, I'm licensed up to 40m and my father is licensed up to 50m. My dad is the only one still actively diving. I prefer snorkeling myself. Somehow diving always made me very sleepy (on the same air as the other people - and quality checked).

moving them around i knocked it over and it pinches it against a casing of window it was wilted the next day, ya i just not sure seperating them might try it later.

well a lot of factor can affect how tired you fel after a dive and also dite sleep and physical condition can also play a part in it. but some people actually run a different blend to help fight being tired

 

[Mandy Onderwater]

Oh no! It's such a simple mistake to make too - I know I've done that a fair few times with potted plant as well.

I'd be awake before and after the dive. Just during I would be yawning like no tomorrow, and would sometimes have to hold the mouth piece to my mouth and be very careful not to drop it lol. I probably relaxed too much. My dad and I would also easily do hour-long dives (longer than most people on same-sized bottles).

 

[daveb]

Oh no! It's such a simple mistake to make too - I know I've done that a fair few times with potted plant as well.

I'd be awake before and after the dive. Just during I would be yawning like no tomorrow, and would sometimes have to hold the mouth piece to my mouth and be very careful not to drop it lol. I probably relaxed too much. My dad and I would also easily do hour-long dives (longer than most people on same-sized bottles).

sounds like you probably would have needed to go to an enriched gas bottle which is 32 % oxygen or higher compared to the average tank at 21%